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 Atheism vs Christainity Debate

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Earth King Lei

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:42 pm

I'm not going to bother reading all of that.
I'm not atheist, satanist nor christian or anything. I'm not sure what I am.

I can say that you have no proof of God, and until you get it I don't want to read your foolishness.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:45 pm

Lol. Well... If you read it then you would know that there was proof in there.

I will make it really easy for you.

Read the Second and third spoiler.


Last edited by Fire Lord Vlace on Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:46 pm

Fire Lord Vlace wrote:
Are you serious right now? You are showing your ignorance by this statement right here.

"People read the bible and look for meaning and secret codes but what they don't understand is that if you read it as if you'd read a childrens book, it makes no sense."

EVERY SINGLE ATHEIST I HAVE EVER TALKED TO that has actually read the Bible say that if you read it like a real book, like a children's tale, is one of the best books they have ever read. Every single one. 100% of them. It is like reading a fantasy book. And the scary thing is, is this "fantasy book" is way ahead of its time.

What I mean is, is it has scientific statements that are fact, that were thousands of years before its time in discovery. Things that we are finding out today, that the Bible has said existed already. (Ie. Laminin, round earth, a 'brain' in the heart', etc.) Actually it is so far ahead of its time that when NASA was just starting out and they tried to launch rockets into space, they couldn't figure out how to do it. So they found out what they were doing wrong by looking at a story in the Bible... The one were earth stood still for a day, Joshua. Etc. This has happened over and over again.

The reformation of Israel the second time after WW2 was prophesied to the day that it would happen. The atheist rebuttal for this is they planned for it to happen that way, so they agree it happened to the day- that is not what the debate is about, but what they conveniently leave out is the fact that the math for the prophecy wasn't discovered till the 1980's. Obviously past the time of the reformation.

Geologically we are faced with the same thing. Atheists quickly jump onto the band wagon that many places in the Bible aren't anywhere to be found. But as of now that band wagon is getting cut down because of archaeological excavations in the mid east and Europe locating these towns.

And about the God thing. You can never ever prove that God doesn't exist. Ever... As much as you ever know you will never know everything. You won't ever know half of everything there is to know. So God can and will be able to exist in the part of knowledge you never know. So atheists take this fact and try to turn it around on itself. They say "You will never be able to prove God exists." As Lei has done above. But what he doesn't understand is the basic principal of discovery. We shall never know something doesn't exist. Ever. Because in everything that we do know, there is always that part we don't.

Let us take a pencil and pretend we have never ever seen a pencil before. We have never heard of it. But then we get a book telling us that it exists. So there are two things we need to do to find out if it is real. Find the pencil itself or find its handiwork. If we don't find either that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, we can believe it doesn't, but that is exactly it. Belief. And depending on what you look at or believe is going to slant what you find. Obviously.

So what we are looking for is implications that God had to be involved in the creation of us and the world. Through science, morals, and logic. And trust me when I tell you he fits into all three perfectly.

"We have slight evidence of Bigfoot, Aliens, Ghosts, and all that, yet people strive to believe something we have 0% proof of.

It doesn't take a lot of explaining, it just takes intelligence of common sense."

This is the statement of ignorance and a person that doesn't use common sense. Lei I am really not bashing on you. Honest to God, most everyone thinks this way. It might be the most common clincher I get ever when I debate.

And trust me when I say, I want you to prove me wrong. I want you to crush me and destroy everything I have to say. I want you to prove that God isn't logical. I really do. It would be so much easier to be an atheist. So I shall look at the everything said with an open mind. But everything I have come to in research and in classes and life experience even has led me to this place.

Tell me Lei how you think we got here. And please anyone else that wants to jump in. But I ask that if you jump in or even read, to keep an open mind and really think for yourself about what is being said. On both sides of the discussion. Christianity and Atheism.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:51 pm

Hey Diqui... You might be doing that a lot so please... Try to keep everything down to a minimum. Lol... Take your favorite parts or something and do that... Cause Honest to God that was like my intro. Lol. And I have so much more I could say.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:55 pm

Intro, huh?
Alright, tell me the rest.

You can give me all the evidence you want except the one piece I need to believe, a picture of God himself.

I don't care if everything in the bible has been proven real, there is no evidence that God is there.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:49 pm

Yes, I need a picture to show that human emotions exist too. Cause there's really no proof, since human actions and reactions are just different chemicals and hormones going off in different places in the body. Therefore, since there is no evidence, emotions do not exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:11 pm

God isn't an emotion or reaction is he?

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:29 pm

Lol Jang... That was pretty good. And the thing is is that is so true. Same thing gravity, wind, energy, etc. You can find effects, but it is up to you to decide if you want to believe it exists.

The way I like to debate now is a debate technique I designed called the keystone rebutal theory. If you take arguement A, and arguement A is fact, not opinion, and arguements B and C contradict arguement A, arguements B and C CANNOT be true. It is so logical but no one gets it. I am sure you will see why in a few posts.

Due to trying to keep it reader friendly I am going to post my paragraphs in spoilers with what the paragraph is about above the spoiler.

So I am going to try to show you why the earth cannot be more than 20,000 years old. Why it is scientificaly impossible for the earth to exceed 20,000.

The Sun Arguement
This is a really broad topic but if narrowed down and studied will dismantle the Big Bang theory so fast it is awesome. My friend, who is Taro or Kaero, came up with this one so give him props and thanks for the math my friend!

Spoiler:
 

Heat Loss/Gain
This arguement narrows down the solar system to an even narrower point of time scale.

Spoiler:
 

I can give so many facts that destroy and dismantle the Big Bang theory. It is scary. But I am going to quickly wrap up getting it under 20,000 years old. If you want to know more post here or pm me.

The Carbon Dating Factor
Carbon Dating proves the earth is under 40,000 years old.

Spoiler:
 

Magnetic Field
This is my most convincing arguement ever since that movie 2012 came out because now I have a basis for explaining to people what it looks like.

Spoiler:
 

And here is my clincher... If the world cannot be more than 20,000 years old, and I have many many more ways of proving it by fact, then evolution could not have happened. That is not opinion that is a fact. Even accelorated mutation theory is not able to complete that in 20,000 years. Especially the divergence and complexity we see today in the world. I have not spouted an opinion except for my introductions and that one sentence in the beginning. So now we have to move on and say... How could we have gotten here so fast if evolution did not get us here?

Think about this logically.

If anything was unclear and you want clarification pm me or post below. Or if you just want to ask a a question or know more. Kaero will tell you, this is my favorite topic ever to talk about, and I can go on for days, legit, on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:34 pm

You guys are just being idiotic now.
Vlance, you seem to think that if you post a bunch of nonsense that no ones wants to read will prove that God exists.

Gravity, Wind, Energy, and Emotions, you say?
I guess I'll do my explaining with a bunch of nonsense as well.

Gravity is a proven fact, no by a picture, but with multiple tests. As well as video it has been proven, as goes planets gravitational pulls.

Wind is felt through your body, if you ever go outside which I highly doubt.

All of these things have been proven, you guys are just looking for arguments, which I find humorous.

So let's get down to God.

Spoiler:
 

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Last edited by Tenzin Shao on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spoiler'd.. way too long.)
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:35 pm

Spoiler:
 



Over 300 reasons that God does not exist.
Don't have to read through them all, just know he doesn't exist.

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Last edited by Tenzin Shao on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spoiler'd.. way too long.)
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:37 pm

And something to sum it ALL up


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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:47 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:06 pm

Wow... I am really tempted to call you what you are...

And btw. If you think that you are still smarter than me after what you just did you need to invest in some cyanide pills. I dumbed it down for you, so that you wouldn't have to keep up with a phd's thinking and vocabulary.

And btw if you look at any college book or paper ever written on gravity it is the THEORY of Gravity. THEORY. Because it is a THEORY. Not a law, not 100% factual, not 100% proven. THEORY. So again, if you think that you are smarter than me....

Does it make you feel good that you know how to copy and paste?

You are doing the very thing I love to see atheists do when they are faced with the fact that therir Big Bang and Evolution theory can't be true. I even went through the effort of making sure you were going to be able to understand it all. I explained everything defined most things explained how it worked for you. I showed you scientificaly and mathematically how it could not be true and you know what you did?

"I am going to spout a bunch of childish nonsense out of my butt and not include 1, not one, scientific arguement on how I am able to believe what I believe. I am not going to talk about 1 scientific fact. Not one. I am going to call you stupid and try to ridicule you for telling me how this universe is older than 20,000 years old with science and mathematics. And I am going to try to tell him that no one is reading his posts word for word that way it makes me look like I have something intellegent to say."

And here is the funny thing. I read some of what you Copy and pasted and I think it is a spin off of atheism. So not only did you fail in bringing science into the debate. You failed in ridiculing me. What a joke. Read some of what you posted

"ARGUMENT FROM PRODUCT EVOLUTION
Barbie dolls evolved.
If Barbie dolls evolved, then so did plants and animals.
Therefore, God doesn’t exist. "


FAIL!!!
You didn't include 1 scientific arguement about how I was wrong. Not 1. If it is so easy to dismantle then do it. But you can't which is why you use the tactics my fouryear old brother uses when he knows he is wrong. "No. You are stupid..." And he rolls his eyes as he does it.

How pathetic. If anyone else wants to have an intelligent debate using science and mathematics please take his spot.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:23 pm

There is no science in God LOL
You're a bigger fail than OJ Simpson.

You're literally fucking retarded.
You think it takes mathematics and science to prove the is a guy in a white robe and big white beard sitting on a cloud?
LOL


Edit Tenzin: Do not insult people like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:53 am

Wow... You should be ashamed to show your face in public.

"There is no science in God LOL"

That is your scientific statement? Hahaha.

That is the same thing as me saying

"There is no science in atheism"

That is 100% opinion. Not only that you still cannot bring up any science for what you believe. That is how stupid you are. I tell you what you need to do and you still don't it.

"You're literally fucking retarded.
You think it takes mathematics and science to prove the is a guy in a white robe and big white beard sitting on a cloud? LOL"

Can we please go back to my last post and look at some of the things I said? Please?

But you can't which is why you use the tactics my four year old brother uses when he knows he is wrong. "No. You are stupid..." And he rolls his eyes as he does it.

"I am going to call you stupid and try to ridicule you..."

Hey did I tell you what you were going to do or what?
--------
I went back up to two posts before to your , Lei... And you edited your post saying underneath the spoiler that that was thre hundred reasons why God can't be true. I am going to copy and paste some of the thing s that I read.

ARGUMENT FROM BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT
We should give people the benefit of the doubt.
When someone says God doesn’t exist, we should believe them.
A lot of people say God doesn’t exist.
Therefore, God doesn’t exist.

This was the first thing I read... Wow... Talk about closed minded.

ARGUMENT FROM GEORGE HARRISON
George Harrison wrote "My Sweet Lord," a song about finding God.
George Harrison is dead.
Therefore, God doesn’t exist.

Hmm... I think we are starting to develop a picture of the "300" facts of why God doesn't exist.

Let me give you another picture. I read most of them and I didn't find one that I could label as even somewhat logical, intelligent, or scienitific. This was the closest I got.

ARGUMENT FROM CONTRAST
Theists believe that God is supernatural and always existed.
"Supernatural" contrasts "natural".
Therefore, nothing that is "supernatural" can exist unless something which is "natural" exists at the same time.
Things that are natural didn't exist until the universe began to exist
Therefore, that which is supernatural could not have always existed
Therefore, God does not exist.


If it is supernatural... Then it is going to defy the laws of the natural... Hence why we call him God...

I ask you to please read them for yourselves... It is the most bogus evidence and reasons I have ever encountered. He has zero, absolutley zero reasons, in that really long and useles post. Read it for youselves. Actualy to give you another picture here it is. CAP from my earlier post which is by far my favorite "reason for non-existance" yet.

"ARGUMENT FROM PRODUCT EVOLUTION
Barbie dolls evolved.
If Barbie dolls evolved, then so did plants and animals.
Therefore, God doesn’t exist."

Lei you need to quit. You are only hurting Tenzin at this point.
------

During my post of science and reason I never once said that proved a God. Not once. All I was doing was dismantling your theory. And if my evidence points to a God... Why would you fight it? Why would you ignore the facts that are gunning your theory down? Why not say "You are right..." Willful ignorance is stupid in greek. Actually I just made that up.

---
Tenzin... I shall respond to you next
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:42 am

Dude, you are way too much of an internet junkie.
You thrive off of negative feedback, which is what makes me keep posting back.

How is there science in God?
There isn't. God is history, if anything.

It's funny, if God DID exist, then he'd be in our classroom History books, but no, he doesn't.
The reason that people don't believe in God is that he is simply "hope".

You goto God for things you need, and if they miraculously happen, you say "PRAISE THE LORD", although there's probably some evidence that God had nothing to do with the miracle.

Now I'm not going to waste any more of your time conjuring up these long posts when you could be out getting a girlfriend and calming down, but since you decide too I guess I can't stop you.

Owait, can't you pray to get a girlfriend?
Or would God frown upon you for that?
Muahahahaha.
Classic.

You really have lost it if you think God is science. And you know, if there is a God, he'll send you to hell for thinking he is simply "science". And not to mention you've just been repeating yourself over and over.

God was meant to be a supernatural being that wondered upon us mysteriously in the skies with his many angels, protecting and serving the universe.

BUT INSTEAD, LIKE YOU SAID

God is a scientifically proven fact, he does exist.

THE TRUTH

If God does exist, then he cannot be "scientifically" proven. He wouldn't let US have the satisfactory of proving his existence. From the beginning, he just wanted us to "HOPE".

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:59 am

I am going to copy everything in your post and past it here to show what was either false, stupid, opinion, or a combination of all three.

Spoiler:
 

At this point everyone can see what an idiot you are, and how everything you say is opinionated. Hence the

"How is there science in God?
There isn't. God is history, if anything."

This one is a really good comment

"It's funny, if God DID exist, then he'd be in our classroom History books, but no, he doesn't.
The reason that people don't believe in God is that he is simply "hope"."

And your comments show that you are really ignorant, unintelligent and have no skill in debating, and probably typing from a closet.

And btw my girlfriend thinks your retarded. Wink

Anyways. I am done with you. Anyone else want to debate take his spot.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:10 am

Oh, so now I'm an idiot for giving opinions?
If you didn't notice, God is an opinion.
This is why this is in the DEBATE section.
Because we're DEBATING whether or not he's REAL or NOT.
We are giving OPINIONS but you're giving FACTS lol and these FACTS don't prove Gods existence.

And lol the only word your girlfriend can say is probably retarded cause shes been called it so many times in her life LOLPWN
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:18 am

I don't care if you give opinion. I couldn't care less about that.

When I start caring is when you call me stupid for owning your theory with fact. Not opinion. And then you use opinion to debate my fact.

"The world can't be older than 20,000 years. Proven by mathematics and scientific fact. Proven by Carbon dating, sun and orbital degeneration, magnetic field degeneration, heat loss and activity, the convergence of species in the world, then the divergence within species, the geological column, trees, etc.

Response: "Your retarded and God can't be real cause barbies evolved."

Hmm... Is this really debating or someone proving how stupid they are. I stated my opinion in the beginning and then moved on to fact.

And wow... Talk about low blow? Hmm... That was it right there... Can we say desperate for a point?

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:31 am

A low blow?
You cherry pick one of my statements out and call it false?
Read all 300+, then reply.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:34 am

I have. And my response doesn't change. Actually it reinforces my thoughts of you.

100% of them are opinion. Not one fact. Not one is logical.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:39 pm

This was going good until the "girlfriend" topic. Then you started acting like 5 year olds in a playground, when he doesn't get his own way which is really disappointing. Next thing now, you'll make a detailed post about how the grammar used in this post was idiotic.

Also, call someone a retard, and you just look like a douche.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:17 pm

This is an Atheism vs. Christianity talk.
Let's all be adults here now.

You, Vlace, stated facts about different things besides God.
God is the topic here, we are debating whether or not God exists.
I do not need to know that the world is 40,000 years old.

I want to see hardcore proven evidence that God exists.
Not any scientifical bullshit, I want proof.

God isn't science.

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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:19 pm

Wow...

The fact that you can't comprehend what I am saying and the points I am making is pathetic. If I disprove the evolution theory and the big dud.. bang... theory and prove that the world has to be less than 20,000 YEARS OLD and NOTHING COULD HAVE GOTTEN US HERE BUT SOMETHING THAT WAS ALL POWERFUL... GOD... THAN I HAVE PROVEN GOD. But since you don't seem to understand that concept I am going to continue. Gladly.

There are over 200 forces in the galaxy that keep it together.(Strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, gravitational force constant, electromagnetic force constant, ratio of electromagnetism force constant to gravitational force constant, ratio of electron to proton mass, ratio of protons to electrons, expansion of the universe, entropy level of the universe mass density of the universe, velocity of light, age of the universe, initial uniformity of radiation fine structure constant, average distance between stars, etc.) If any one of those was changed by 1/10^40 the universe would fall apart. These chances that everything happened just like that are so unlikely that you would have more chance of stacking dimes from the earth till the moon and doing that over and over again until the entire North American continent was covered side by side by these stacks of dimes, and painting one of them red placing it randomly threw out one of the stacks and then picking it first try, only try. Just one of those 200 forces by that number. We can round that number to zero. And my next point shall prove why.

And here comes the "well, it is still a chance etc." argument. But the thing is is that you believe in odds just as much as I do. And I can prove it. If we play poker together and I deal out the cards and I get a Royal Flush and then it comes to my turn again to deal and I get another flush, and then my next turn another one and one more royal flush in my last turn to seal the deal. Then you and the people around the table tell me I am cheating, My response is going to be, "This is just the universe where I get Four Royal flushes in a row." I am still going to be beaten up.

We all know that getting four Royal flushes in a row is impossible or very very very close to it. No one in their right mind would believe that I didn't cheat. And they shouldn't! They would be retarded if they thought I was not... But the chances of me getting four royal flushes in a row is only c 1/10^15!


So if ONE of those over 200 forces was to be changed by 1/10^40 the universe would fall apart, and yet we are trying to say that chance is how we got here? That alone proves God's existence. Not to mention the fact that the closest star to us is instrumental and if it wasn't there we wouldn't be here. If our tilt was off by less than a degree either way life wouldn't be able to be supported on our planet. We are not here. The position we are in the Universe is so instrumental in protecting us from nuclear energy of exploding stars plus fifty other energies that would be hitting our planet if our position wasn't perfect. If we were not in the center we wouldn't be here. Our position in the galaxy is instrumental any closer and we burn any farther away and we freeze. If the earth's crust were thicker too much oxygen would be transferred to the crust from the atmosphere, but any thinner and too much tectonic activity and volcanic activity. If the gravitational interaction was greater the tidal effects on the ocean, atmosphere and rotational period would be to severe. If any less the earth's orbital obliquity would change too much causing climatic instabilities. If the gravity of this planet were stronger the atmosphere would retain to much ammonia and methane, which is poisonous. If it were less the atmosphere would lose to much water. If the length of the day was changed- greater- the temperature differences would be to great to sustain life and if any shorter the atmospheric wind velocities would be to great to survive.

If the expansion rate for the universe was changed by 1/10^55 galaxies couldn't have formed. If it were slower by that same amount, galaxies would have collapsed in on themselves before a chance to form.

You are trying to tell me that that was all by chance? And that it all happened in less than 20,000 years without a God guiding it? If that is what you are saying than why don't we play poker some time? Cause I will gladly play you if that is what you believe.

You can't get much more logical than that. You have this fact:
The universe is so finely tuned that if anything was changed by even the slightest amount, we wouldn't exist. And here is the best part. If we take the number for all these factors lining up perfectly like they do, we would have to take c 1/10^1(1 million zeroes) to get to the chance of it all working and we are not including life starting.

Now you are dealing with these two VERY BIG issues in your belief system.
I have proved that our universe is under 20,000 years old nullifying the evolution and Big Bang Theory
And that the chances of the universe being so finely tuned without some, All Powerful Being (Other wise known as God) is zero.

We haven't even begun the Abiogenesis and beyond that to now. I will do that next post. God made science there for he is in it. If you look at science, like you haven't been- like most atheists, than you shall find the Guy in the clouds.
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PostSubject: Re: Atheism vs Christainity Debate   Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:54 pm

Alright, time to settle this once and for all with your own words.
Just remember this valuable day, Vlace, the day that you disproved Gods existence, and thank you for enlightening me that there is no God.

I believe that there is a God, but not the God that you Christians believe in.
With the proof you've given me, you can clearly justify that there is a ruler of the universe, but not God. Maybe his/her name is Kenny, or Angela, or Tom, or Kimmy.

You stated above that our universe is very fragile, very very very fragile, and if something moved blah blah we would fall apart, and that clearly states that something out there, as I like to call him Tom, is holding our universe together.

You LACK evidence that the Christian God exists.
Sorry, try again.
And I do mean the Christian God, not "a" God.

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